To receive and consider the report of the Cabinet Member for a Learning Powys.
Minutes:
Documents Considered:
· Report of the Cabinet Member for a Learning Powys – Llanfihangel Rhydithon C.P. School
Issues Discussed:
· This also provides an opportunity to look at the community impact of the schools closure.
· Questions:
Question |
Response |
How much is this going to cost Powys. As we are so far ahead with the process how many current pupils have applied to go to other schools and how will this impact on work that has already been done. |
Cabinet Member Response: There have been no applications to date to move pupils to another school.
Parents and governors have made no commitments to move pupils so there is no impact on the planned budgets of other schools. There will be an impact on the budget process in the next financial year because there will be an element covering the summer term within the allocation of funding which would have otherwise been available to schools. This year’s costs have been covered by contingency budgets. |
How many pupils are in the school at present. Whilst welcoming the intention to make Welsh Medium provision available in East Radnorshire, what number of pupils would you be willing to start with for an initial Welsh medium school. |
Officer Response: There are 36 pupils on roll currently and there will be 34 pupils in September.
In relation to Welsh Medium the point of delaying the implementation is to gain an assessment of the potential numbers of Welsh language pupils in the catchment to assess whether there is viability and how to manage a progression from where the current school is now to a fully Welsh Medium school. |
Of the 34 pupils how many are from within the catchment area |
Officer Response: From the pupil numbers at consultation more than half the pupils at the school lived closer to other schools. |
Concerned about the cost implications for other learners in Powys.
Why could the transfer of the building to the community not be considered outside the school closure programme.
In relation to the changes in transition arrangements, what might be the difference in transition arrangements be in a year’s time to now.
If one of the reasons for closure was the condition of the building would this not still be an issue if it was a Welsh Medium school. There is an issue of maintenance during the next year whilst its open and the further work if it becomes a Welsh Medium school.
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Cabinet Member Response: The reason for including the transfer of the building to the community was to commit the Council to doing the work.
In relation to Transition, the Cabinet member advised that with the timings on the current proposals, the notice would have meant keeping staff on to the end of the Christmas term. The new arrangements will mean that transition can happen at the end of a school year giving staff the opportunity to move to another post and allowing pupils to transition at the end rather than the middle of a year which is less disruptive.
Officer Response: The school building condition was not one of the key reasons cited for closure as it is a category B school so not in a poor condition. If there is a longer time life for the school there will be ongoing maintenance costs, which would be £6k for the boiler and £40k for closing off the school ground. |
If the school is only remaining open to eventually become a Welsh Medium school it could lead to a decline in pupil numbers. What would be an acceptable figure for the number of pupils in twelve months time being taught through the Medium of Welsh to justify keeping the school open.
Why has the change in decision been made by the new Administration. |
Cabinet Member Response: If this becomes a Welsh Medium school this would be a transition.
The previous scrutiny view was there were other considerations that needed to be considered in terms of the wider transformation agenda. The decision was therefore taken to bring those proposals forward and examine them and then take a decision and not give pupils and parents false hope.
Officer Response: How this transition would come about would be the subject of another proposal. As examples the Bro Hyddgen and Dyffryn Trannon proposals were for a staggered approach, starting at the foundation phase.
This paper does not revisit the proposal. The School Organisation Code gives an opportunity to delay the implementation of a proposal. If it was a new proposal there would be need for a new process. Irrespective of the current review, the school would need to close in August 2023. In respect of the process, a request for a judicial review was made and declined, then there was an oral hearing as part of an appeal and the appeal was not allowed as the court deemed the Council’s process to be correct. |
Would any due process start at the end of the twelve month delay. Ysgol Tregynon and Bro Hyddgen are larger schools with a higher percentage of pupils who are Welsh speaking. Llanfihangel Rhydithon probably has an average of six pupils per year and it is uncertain how many of those are Welsh speaking. Therefore, the numbers would be small for a transition.
The main issue is the use of the educational budget and the report does not contain information about the anticipated educational outcomes for the pupils following this process, with around £150k top sliced off the education budgets.
In respect of the current school, we would expect to see significant educational outcomes or improvements for the £150k being spent and there is no evidence to support this. It would seem that the outcome on this school and others in the county will be negative with less funding available to schools.
What would you understand to be the minimum size for a viable Welsh Medium School. |
Cabinet Member Response: The intention is to look at the Welsh Medium potential in the East Radnorshire area. Within the WESP there is a desire to have Welsh Medium education at the primary level in the East Radnorshire area, but there is no idea of the level of demand or the best location for this as yet.
The viability of a Welsh Language offering would be in the next paper following this review, but the current focus is on the potential provision.
The outcome will be that children will able to be educated through the medium of Welsh in the catchment.
With regard to numbers, we cannot pre-judge any investigation as the review will look at the potential for Welsh Medium education in the catchment.
The Cabinet Member for Finance questioned the £150k impact during the review period because £76.8k will come from delegated schools contingency budget to keep the school open until the end of March 2023 which will not impact on any other education setting. For the period 2023-24 the impact will be £32.3k which will have an impact on the overall delegated schools budget but not have an impact on individual school budgets. In relation to the maintenance costs there could be an additional cost if there is a need to move boiler which will come from the capital budget. |
How much is in the contingency budget, is it limited and if it is all used where will the funding come from. |
Officer Response: The boiler costs might not necessarily come out of the schools contingency budget, but out of the come out of the major improvements programme. Some of the contingency budget has been committed but there is sufficient in this budget to cover these proposed costs.
With the school major improvements budget which is a capital budget of £4.5m in the current year. The contingency fund is set at the beginning of the year and is currently £555k and has about £288k committed so far. The contingency budget is top sliced from the schools delegated budget. What is left at the end of the year is distributed across the schools. |
The Cabinet Member for a Learning Powys is thanked for recognising the need for Welsh Language provision throughout Powys. It has been questioned if this is the right site. If the school was closed now and this is not the right site, is there an advantage of keeping this open for twelve months and opening it as a Welsh Medium school later, and incurring additional cost.
How many pupils are currently fluent in Welsh in this school as in Caereinion the numbers speaking Welsh is 64%. |
Cabinet Member Response: The core element of retaining the school open is it allows a migration through a continuum as with the current number it makes the move to Welsh Medium sustainable. It is essentially the same as Caereinion is going through, as pupils move through the age groups Welsh speakers come in you migrate to a fully Welsh medium school, rather than opening a school with one class with one year cohort in it.
If we are going to grow the Welsh Language we are going to start working in areas where we will have small numbers, but with a commitment from the community to go down that route. If we do not have that commitment, we could only have Welsh Medium education in areas where there are many Welsh speakers so we will not achieve our target. There is a commitment in this community by establishing a Cylch and Ti a Fi Group. |
Are there any conditions in the WESP about what is required before opening a new Welsh School such as population in the area. |
Officer Response: Ideally we would develop Welsh Medium provision where we could guarantee growth. Generally they are developed in towns so this is something which needs to be considered when the review is undertaken. |
As a parent most people would welcome a stay of execution on a school closure but the concern is for the health and mental well-being of the children and the teachers and parents. The delay will still cause a strain on children, teachers and parents and there needs to be a clear set of deadlines communicated to the school. \children almost need a fresh start rather than a twelve months delay. |
Cabinet Member Response: Would agree with the point. Because of the tight timetable to the end of term that is why the report has been brought forward. Appropriate timeframes have been discussed with officers. The key dates outside the council’s control is the publication of the census data on the Welsh language which is expected towards the end of 2022. It is hoped to take a paper and decision to Cabinet early in 2023.
Officer Response: The decision to close the school has been made. This report is about delaying the implementation rather than changing the decision about closure. Any proposals about Welsh Medium provision would be new and separate and would need to go through the provisions of the School Organisation Code. |
From the perspective of parents, pupils and staff this delay will cause uncertainty. What support will be put in place by the Council to keep stakeholders informed about developments. |
Cabinet Member Response: No work has been undertaken on a communications and engagement plan as yet until the decision is taken by the Cabinet. The expectation is there will be proactive engagement with the governing body, parents, pupils and the community. There will be regular engagement but the process has not been decided as yet. This information will be shared with the public as well.
Officer Response: We were looking at putting effective transition arrangements in place for pupils and learners. Due to the delay and as parents have not gone through the admissions process t has been difficult to start the transition process. We will need to work with the schools particularly around pupils’ well-being and to ensure that pupils have visits to schools and pastoral support for pupils and staff. |
Has any redundancy process been started with any of the staff at the school. |
Officer Response: No |
It appears that there are only two options available at the end of the review, either closure or the school becoming Welsh Medium.
The concern is what is the percentage certainty of this school becoming a Welsh Medium school. |
Officer Response: Even for the school to become a Welsh Medium school it will need to close. There is no option for it to be reopened as an English Medium school. |
If a Welsh Medium school were to open on this site it would not open immediately after the closure of the school as an English Medium school.
Therefore, the option to keep it open at a cost is not viable as it is not clear that there is much benefit. |
Officer Response: That is correct about the opening of a Welsh Medium school. |
The report does not include an estimation of costs for transformation. Would be this be an additional cost |
Officer Response: There would be some cost but that would be minimal. |
Outcomes:
Scrutiny made the following observations:
1. The Committee received assurances that: · to date none of the current pupils had applied to move to other schools · with regard to concerns about the potential budgetary impact on other schools in the County if the proposal were agreed, the Cabinet Member for Finance and Corporate Transformation indicated that impact on the budget for 2022-23 would be funded from the delegated school contingency fund (£76.8k) and the impact on school budgets in 2023-24 (£32.3k) would be minimal and for the summer term only.
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2. The Committee received clarification that · the proposal was to allow time to gain an understanding of the potential to establish a Welsh Medium primary provision in the East Radnorshire area which might, or might not, be situated on the Llanfihangel Rhydithon school site, once the present school closed in August 2023. · of the 34 pupils that would be at the school from September, over half of these pupils lived closer to other schools. · the condition of the school (Category B) was not one of the reasons considered for the closure of the school. · the report was not revisiting the original closure proposal. The School Organisation Code allows the Council to delay implementation of the decision to close the school. However, any new proposal coming forward (such as opening a Welsh Medium school) would be subject to the processes set out in the School Organisation Code. · There were ongoing maintenance costs which would need to be funded, but that costs such as a replacement boiler would be funded from the capital budget and that there was sufficient in the capital budget to fund this.
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3. The Committee questioned: · why matters such as the transfer of the building to the community could not be considered outside the school closure process. · the Cabinet Member for a Learning Powys’s assertion that this site could become a site for a new Welsh Medium primary school. The WESP (Welsh Education Strategic Plan) states that new provision would be considered where the Council could guarantee growth in numbers of pupils. The Committee was of the view that numbers in any new Welsh Medium provision in this area were likely to be initially extremely small, and remain so for a number of years. The Committee asked what the minimum requirement would be for a viable new Welsh Medium school, but the Cabinet Member for a Learning Powys could not provide this information until the review had been completed. · the advantage of keeping the school open for a further year: · as the review of Welsh Language provision could be undertaken independently of the school closing and as the school would have to close in any case prior to any different provision (such as a Welsh Medium provision) being opened on the site so there would be a time delay between the two events. · particularly if the location was not deemed suitable following the review to host Welsh Medium provision for the area.
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4. The Committee expressed concern: · regarding the significant cost of delaying the closure with no additional educational outcomes for pupils. · that use of the delegated school contingency fund is top sliced off all school delegated budgets and therefore unavailable to other schools in the county if spent in full. · regarding the health and well-being of pupils, staff and parents at the school as the closure of the school was continuing and for any delay there needed to be a very clear communications plan to inform pupils, staff and parents. · that support was made available for pupils and teachers to ensure an effective transition to new arrangements once the school closed. · |
5. The Committee was supportive of the need to establish a Welsh Medium provision in the East Radnorshire area.
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Scrutiny’sRecommendation to Cabinet:
1 That the Committee is supportive of the establishment of a Welsh Medium provision in the East Radnorshire area.
2 That the Cabinet is asked to consider and respond to the Committee’s questions and concerns as set out in Sections 3 and 4 of the observations above.
Supporting documents: