Venue: Rhayader Fire Station, East Street, Rhayader, Powys, LD6 5DL
Contact: Elizabeth Patterson Scrutiny Officer
To receive apologies for absence.
Apologies for absence were received from Tony Thomas (Powys Teaching Health Board). Trish Buchan (Powys Teaching Health Board) attended in his place.
Present: Neil Evans (Mid and West Wales Fire and Rescue Service) (Chair), Angela Davies (Powys County Council), Trish Buchan (Powys Teaching Health Board), Owen James (Powys Teaching Health Board), Ann Webb (Brecon Beacons National Park), County Councillor A Williams (Powys County Council) and Ruth Parry-Wright (PAVO).
Nigel Brinn (Corporate Director – Economy and Environment), Bethan Ledger (Strategic Planning, Policy and Performance Manager) and Liz Patterson (Scrutiny Officer)
Election of Vice-Chair
To elect a Vice-Chair from the statutory membership of the Committee. (Powys County Council, Powys Teaching Health Board, Natural Resources Wales and Mid and West Fire and Rescue Authority)
Resolved that County Councillor Ange Williams be elected as Vice-Chair for the ensuing year.
To authorise the Chair to sign the minutes of the meeting of the Public Service Board Scrutiny Committee held on the 29th April 2019.
The Chair was authorised to sign the minutes of the meeting held on the 19th April 2019 as a correct record.
The Scrutiny Officer was instructed to follow up on the request for Scrutiny Training.
To receive the outcome letter and response sent to the Chair of the Powys Public Service Board after the April 2019 Powys PSB Scrutiny meeting.
The correspondence between PSB Scrutiny and PSB was attached. The Strategic Planning Manager confirmed that the meeting between Stuart Bourne (Powys Teaching Health Board), Nigel Brinn (Powys County Council) and Carl Cooper (PAVO) had taken place and a paper on Step 5 ‘Develop a joint approach to community resilience by co-ordinating existing support and building the skills and capacity within communities helping them to do the things they can do for themselves’ would be taken to the next PSB meeting is September 2019. It appeared that it was the intention to use the North Powys Well-being Project and an existing PAVO project ‘Social Value Forum’ to progress this Step.
It appeared there was tension in using the North Powys Well-being Project to meet Step 5. This project is also being used in respect of Steps 11 and 12. It is both wider than Step 5 in its remit and narrower than Step 5 in its geographical coverage of the county.
Discussion took place regarding what the PSB mean by the word resilience. Scrutiny partners from their different backgrounds would all have different understanding of the word which might be more specific (for example flood resilience, community fire safety etc) or more general (for example communities being resilient from a people perspective rather than physical perspective).
Agreed that Committee would await sight of the paper on Step 5 prepared by Stuart Bourne for the PSB before programming this step for further scrutiny.
To receive a response from the Public Service Board on the following question posed by the Public Service Board Scrutiny Committee at their meeting on 20th September 2018:
What action is proposed by the PSB to ensure that common processes are used by Powys County Council and Powys Teaching Heath Board utilising the WCCIS system as an enabler to achieve the integration of health and care services?
At the meeting of the PSB on 28th March 2019 the Chief Executive of the Powys Teaching Health Board had undertaken to provide this information which was requested for the PSB Scrutiny Committee on 29th April but had asked for this to be deferred to the following meeting.
PSB Scrutiny had been assigned the task of Reviewing the effectiveness of WCCIS by the Joint Chairs and Vice-Chairs Steering Group on 11th September 2018. This had been considered at the meeting of PSB Scrutiny on 20th September 2018.
The meeting on the 20th September 2019 had resulted in a question which was posed to the PSB. On the 28th March 2019 PSB considered the question and concluded:
Carol Shillabeer as the officer responsible for the roll out of WCISS in Wales offered to respond the Scrutiny questions. It was noted that the questions would have been better directed to the RPB as the PSB was not responsible for the implementation on WCCIS. HD would raise this with the Scrutiny Manager at PCC.
Members noted the comments that this item sat under the Regional Partnership Board and sought assurance that WCCIS was receiving appropriate scrutiny.
Recommended that the Co-ordinating Committee* note the response from the PSB that the question would have been better directed to the RPB and re-assign the responsibility for scrutiny to WCCIS to an appropriate committee.
*The Co-ordinating Committee is the successor Committee to the Joint Chairs and Vice-Chairs Steering Group.
Step 10 Update
To receive an update of Step 10: ‘to develop a strong brand to promote and attract inward investment into Powys’.
The Corporate Director (Economy and Environment) gave a presentation on the Growing Mid Wales (copy filed with signed minutes).
Powys County Council and Ceredigion County Council are working together on Growing Mid Wales. These areas face similar challenges one of which is the lowest GVA in Wales at £16,910 some £9,268 less than the UK, share a similar geography and either have a lengthy coastline or border with England.
This is the fourth development deal in Wales following on from the Cardiff City Region Deal, Swansea Bay City Deal and North Wales Growth Deal. There are pros and cons of going last not least that lessons can be learnt from the other City and Growth Deals which include the importance of getting the governance right. Whilst the speed of progress may appear frustrating much work has been ongoing behind the scenes to ensure that the governance is correct. It is not intended to limit ambition and the aim is to provide a series of interventions which link to objectives rather than projects which have more invested in them.
An Inter Authority Agreement has been signed and a Joint Committee set up supported by an Economic Strategy Group, Regional Learning and Skills Partnership and Partnership Forum. A series of regional sub-groups exist below the main forums which can cross over into other areas (such as the transport sub-group which covers part of south Gwynedd).
Does the transport group link to the aims of Step 3 ‘work with an influence others to improve our transport infrastructure, our existing transport links and develop a sustainable and integrated approach for planning and delivery’?
These link to an extent.
Transport issues are of high importance to the Powys Teaching Health Board as access to health appointments for patients can be challenging.
Opportunities exist here for co-ordination of bus funding and infrastructure improvements.
The key points for this programme are that it is over a 15 year period, unique to this area and intends to grow the foundation economy. This will need a skilled workforce and the right infrastructure. There has been engagement with the private sector as it is important that this is not too public sector orientated.
Will the education and skills programme include skills needed for all sectors including the health sector?
The education and skills programme will focus on meeting the skills gap locally.
Will the education and skills programme include school age children and offer a path locally so that young people can continue their education without having to leave the area to attend university where they tend not to return.
This is an issue and it is understood that the Mid Wales region produce proportionally more university level entrants who are not then retained.
A number of ambitions have been expressed including:
· Radio spectrum
· Food innovation
· Agriculture and grassland innovation
which are supported by the following business ambitions:
· Broadening the economic base
· Strengthening the economic base
· Connecting our economy
The aim is to increase GVA by 5% as ... view the full minutes text for item 22.
Public Service Board Annual Report
To receive an update on the Powys Service Board Annual Report.
The Strategic Planning, Policy and Performance Manager confirmed that 8 two minute videos had been filmed covering the various steps of the Well-being Plan as the first Annual Report of the PSB. These videos will be uploaded to the Councils Youtube site and will be shared with partners for publishing and promoting. The videos are a mix of English and Welsh language with subtitles.
The meeting viewed three videos: the overview, one covering transport and one covering skills and lifelong learning.
It had been intended to publish the Annual Report at the Royal Welsh Show but this had not been possible as the County Council was in purdah until 2nd August. It is intended to publish the videos by the end of the week.
Resolved that, on publication the Scrutiny Officer circulate the link to the Youtube videos. Committee Members view the Annual Report from the perspective of critical friend and return any comments to the Scrutiny Officer for compilation.
To receive a briefing on the Public Service Board Scrutiny arrangements across Wales.
The Scrutiny Officer presented a paper outlining the different scrutiny arrangements for PSB across Wales.
Scrutiny Members were asked to keep updated on the arrangements for other PSB Scrutiny Committees to identify any good practice which the Powys PSB Scrutiny may choose to use.
To consider the governance relationships between the Powys Public Service Board, the Powys Regional Partnership Board and the Powys Public Service Scrutiny Committee.
The Scrutiny Officer presented the paper on Governance Arrangements explaining that this paper had been considered at the meeting of the Co-ordinating Committee at Powys County Council which has the role of assigning scrutiny work across the Scrutiny Committees of the authority.
The Co-ordinating Committee had requested further detail and for the information to be presented schematically.
Concern was expressed that the PSB appeared to be delegating the delivery of certain Well-Being Steps to existing projects with separate governance arrangements. Whilst the challenge of delivery of such projects remains the responsibility of the PSB this delegation complicates matters in two respects
· The governance of such projects is separate from the PSB and in the case of the North Powys Well-Being Programme governance is undertaken within the Regional Partnership Board (to which there appears to be no defined scrutiny), and in the case of the Mid Wales Growth Deal it appears there is an intention to set up specific Joint Scrutiny arrangements. There is little sense in undertaking scrutiny in multiple arenas but it is also important that all areas receive an appropriate level of scrutiny.
· By using existing projects to deliver a Well-being Step it maybe that the project is much wider than the Step in remit and potentially narrower (North Powys Well-being Programme), or wider (Mid Wales Growth Deal) than the Step geographically
The Co-ordinating Committee have been tasked to examine this issue and it is recommended that the PSB Scrutiny Committee Chair attend the next meeting of the Co-ordinating Committee to take part in discussions which affect the remit of PSB Scrutiny.
The Powys Public Service Board have met on the 28th March 2019 and 6th June 2019. The minutes of the meeting on the 28th March 2019 have been published. The minutes of the 6th June 2019 have not yet been published.
Agendas and minutes of all Powys Public Service Board meetings can be found at:
The minutes from the meeting of the PSB held on the 28th March 2019 were noted. The draft minutes from the meeting of the PSB held on the 6th June 2019 were yet to be published.
Members expressed concern that the draft minutes from the meeting on the 6th June 2019 were not available some six weeks after the meeting and resolved to query the timeframe for publication of minutes with the PSB.
1st October 2019 – Monitoring progress on Delivery Plans
The date of the next meeting clashed with a meeting of the Powys Teaching Health Board and it was agreed to meet on Thursday 3rd October at 10.30am with a briefing at 10.00am.
Items for consideration to include:
· Monitoring progress on Delivery Plans
· Detailed scrutiny of Step 6