Draft minutes

Documents:

·         Notes of the last meeting

Outcomes:

·         Noted

RESOLVED to exclude the public for the following item of business on the grounds that there would be disclosure to them of exempt information under category 1 of The Local Authorities (Access to Information) (Variation) (Wales) Order 2007).

The Chair of the Health and Care Committee explained the context for the presentation to be made to the Finance Panel by the Head of Children’s Services.  Pre decision scrutiny on a request by the Service for a virement to cover additional expenditure had been undertaken and a report prepared for consideration by informal Cabinet and Executive Management Team.  The issues raised within it had prompted the presentation to be made to an informal meeting of Health and Care Committee and detailed the background for the increased costs.

The Panel had been concerned regarding the impact on the current year and future years’ budgets.  Comparator data has also been compiled by the Finance Team and Powys costs per child are higher than similar authorities.

During the presentation the Head of Service highlighted the significant costs associated with a few therapeutic placements.  All authorities are facing significant challenges in sourcing appropriate placements in addition to recruiting social workers and care staff.  The Chair of the Health and Care Committee had commented at Cabinet that one particular concern was that the Authority were currently picking up some costs that should be met by the Health Board.  It was noted that during the covid period, data has shown that young women are suffering more with mental health issues.  Some of these issues overlap the Health Board and Authority and endeavours should be made to support young people with mental health issues adequately.  The Heath Authority has money in its budget to meet this need.  Provision within mid Wales needs to be addressed.

The Portfolio Holder had also suggested at a national level that therapeutic intervention would sit better within local authorities but to date there has been no agreement.

The Panel noted that property had been acquired some time ago to provide residential placements and asked for an update on progress.  An application for registration has been submitted.  Once operational, and staff are in place, this will provide two residential beds – these will not be therapeutic.  The Closer to Home Strategy commenced three years ago.  Since the pandemic there are insufficient places available.

Legacy issues remain from the time when the service was not functioning as it should – this could take several years to work through the system.  New ways of working have been implemented but it will take some time from the benefits of new strategies to be realised.

The Head of Finance reported that the criteria for accessing funds from the Hardship Fund were strict.  Tapering arrangements were being introduced for the remainder of the current financial year.  She assured the Panel that wherever possible, costs would be recovered from the Fund.  Reserves would be used as a last resort.  However, it was important that all Members understand the pressures to ensure that appropriate budgets are set for all services.  The impact of increased expenditure on other services’ budgets and Council Tax needs to be understood.

The Head of Finance reported that ongoing and Section 33 monies were being  ...  view the full minutes text for item 4.

The Finance Manager took the Panel through a presentation on costs and other data relating to children’s services across Wales and in particular against similar rural authorities.

The Head of Finance noted the need to understand what is driving the data and why costs in Powys appeared to be higher than comparator authorities.  The information was being provided to the service, Cabinet and scrutiny committees to aid understanding.

The Portfolio Holder informed the Panel that the number of Children Looked After was lower than it had been for many years demonstrating that the early help and prevention strategies were working.  The Panel had previously noted that the cost per unit in Gwynedd was considerably less, but the Portfolio Holder reported that the numbers of CLA and care orders were rising in Gwynedd.  That authority also benefits from a more stable workforce with no agency support.  Powys is in a position where it has to compete with neighbouring authorities for staff.

The Head of Children’s Services had reported that legacy costs were typically 30% higher.  This could not be explained easily but may be due to the need for 2:1 staffing and therapeutic costs.

It was noted that the budget for Children’s Services had remained relatively static for a number of years.  In 2017/18 there were cost reductions which were not achieved.  The Panel were reminded of the importance of impact assessments when considering potential cost reductions.  The service had not been adequately supported and decisions had been made when there was little data available and outcomes were not predicted.  There had also been a lack of oversight and accountability. The numbers of CLA were lower but some children had been left in dangerous situations. It was the Portfolio Holder’s opinion that if the authority does what is right for an individual child, this will also represent the most financially sustainable position for the Authority.  The current position is much clearer with sound data, quality assurance and intelligence having improved.  This will continue.  The culture and leadership of the service is integral and staff must be valued.

It was suggested that a debt profile should be provided to monitor how the legacy costs will move through the system.  This is in place for 16+ and other work is continuing.

Considered within Item 4 above.

The Head of Finance reported that the budget was being developed through Executive Management Team and Services with proposals being brought forward to bridge the gap.  The settlement will be announced on 20 December but there are no indications as yet of what it might be.  Although the Welsh Government Budget has increased and so there had been hope of an increased settlement, there were other commitments being announced such as free school meals for all primary school children which will have to be factored in.  The Portfolio Holder for Finance indicated that there were 46 policy areas that were being addressed at a national level and that the Welsh Government was to review its capital budget.

The next meeting is scheduled to take place on Monday 20 December 2021 when budget proposals will be discussed.